mailing list archives

I am not sure if this is the correct forum for this question, but I will
ask anyways :)

We have an application that connects to [Gmail]\All Mail. However it
appears this special folder's name is localized based on user's
localization settings.

What is the best way to handle this? One way is to keep a list of localized
names of this folder........


Thanks,
Saqib
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You should check the mailbox flags - Gmail exposes \All for All Mail when listing with LIST. See page 3 of  https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6154 for all possible flags for special use mailboxes.

TAG LIST "" "[Gmail]/%"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren \All) "/" "[Gmail]/All Mail"

(notice the "\All? in the response)

Best regards,
Andris Reinman

On 13.12.2013, at 0:03, Ali, Saqib <docbook.xml@gmail.com> wrote:

> I am not sure if this is the correct forum for this question, but I will ask anyways :)
> 
> We have an application that connects to [Gmail]\All Mail. However it appears this special folder's name is localized based on user's localization settings.
> 
> What is the best way to handle this? One way is to keep a list of localized names of this folder........
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> Saqib
> _______________________________________________
> Imap-protocol mailing list
> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol

Thanks Andris! :)




On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 2:10 PM, Andris Reinman <andris.reinman@gmail.com>wrote:

> You should check the mailbox flags - Gmail exposes \All for All Mail when
> listing with LIST. See page 3 of  https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6154 for
> all possible flags for special use mailboxes.
>
> TAG LIST "" "[Gmail]/%"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren \All) "/" "[Gmail]/All Mail"
>
> (notice the "\All? in the response)
>
> Best regards,
> Andris Reinman
>
> On 13.12.2013, at 0:03, Ali, Saqib <docbook.xml@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I am not sure if this is the correct forum for this question, but I will
> ask anyways :)
> >
> > We have an application that connects to [Gmail]\All Mail. However it
> appears this special folder's name is localized based on user's
> localization settings.
> >
> > What is the best way to handle this? One way is to keep a list of
> localized names of this folder........
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Saqib
> > _______________________________________________
> > Imap-protocol mailing list
> > Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
> > http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol
>
>
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Is it true that Gmail does not send notification to a client which is 
idling on a mailbox?

I ran across that while testing some code that detects flag changes 
using IDLE and I was surprised that I did not get anything from Gmail.

Google searches suggest that's the case.

Thanks,
Rick

-- 
Rick Sanders
rfs9999@earthlink.net
IMAP Tools  http://www.athensfbc.com/imap-tools

Yes, gmail currently only notifies of new messages and expunged messages
during idle.

Brandon
On Jan 23, 2014 1:26 PM, "Rick Sanders" <rfs9999@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Is it true that Gmail does not send notification to a client which is
> idling on a mailbox?
>
> I ran across that while testing some code that detects flag changes using
> IDLE and I was surprised that I did not get anything from Gmail.
>
> Google searches suggest that's the case.
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
>
> --
> Rick Sanders
> rfs9999@earthlink.net
> IMAP Tools  http://www.athensfbc.com/imap-tools
> _______________________________________________
> Imap-protocol mailing list
> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol
>
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Gmail's IDLE only returns for new or deleted mail, not flag changes.


On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Rick Sanders <rfs9999@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Is it true that Gmail does not send notification to a client which is
> idling on a mailbox?
>
> I ran across that while testing some code that detects flag changes using
> IDLE and I was surprised that I did not get anything from Gmail.
>
> Google searches suggest that's the case.
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
>
> --
> Rick Sanders
> rfs9999@earthlink.net
> IMAP Tools  http://www.athensfbc.com/imap-tools
> _______________________________________________
> Imap-protocol mailing list
> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol
>
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As of yesterday, Gmail now supports reporting flags changes anywhere we
would report new/expunged messages (ie, most places its allowed by the
protocol, but definitely during IDLE).

Its only enabled for gmail.com users at the moment, Google Apps users will
follow in a week or so, assuming we don't find any issues.

Brandon

On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 1:32 PM, Brandon Long <blong@google.com> wrote:

> Yes, gmail currently only notifies of new messages and expunged messages
> during idle.
>
> Brandon
> On Jan 23, 2014 1:26 PM, "Rick Sanders" <rfs9999@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Is it true that Gmail does not send notification to a client which is
>> idling on a mailbox?
>>
>> I ran across that while testing some code that detects flag changes using
>> IDLE and I was surprised that I did not get anything from Gmail.
>>
>> Google searches suggest that's the case.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rick
>>
>> --
>> Rick Sanders
>> rfs9999@earthlink.net
>> IMAP Tools  http://www.athensfbc.com/imap-tools
>> _______________________________________________
>> Imap-protocol mailing list
>> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
>> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol
>>
>
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Hi Brandon,

Can you add an IMAP capability (or can an existing one be used) so that client can detect this behaviour?

Thank you,
Alexey

> On 23 Jan 2014, at 21:32, Brandon Long <blong@google.com> wrote:
> 
> Yes, gmail currently only notifies of new messages and expunged messages during idle.
> 
> Brandon
> 
>> On Jan 23, 2014 1:26 PM, "Rick Sanders" <rfs9999@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Is it true that Gmail does not send notification to a client which is idling on a mailbox?
>> 
>> I ran across that while testing some code that detects flag changes using IDLE and I was surprised that I did not get anything from Gmail.
>> 
>> Google searches suggest that's the case.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Rick

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That implies you'd expect flag changes to be sent during other commands,
like NOOP etc? I thought Gmail never sent any unsolicited flag changes at
all - am I wrong?


On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Brandon Long <blong@google.com> wrote:

> Yes, gmail currently only notifies of new messages and expunged messages
> during idle.
>
> Brandon
> On Jan 23, 2014 1:26 PM, "Rick Sanders" <rfs9999@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> Is it true that Gmail does not send notification to a client which is
>> idling on a mailbox?
>>
>> I ran across that while testing some code that detects flag changes using
>> IDLE and I was surprised that I did not get anything from Gmail.
>>
>> Google searches suggest that's the case.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Rick
>>
>> --
>> Rick Sanders
>> rfs9999@earthlink.net
>> IMAP Tools  http://www.athensfbc.com/imap-tools
>> _______________________________________________
>> Imap-protocol mailing list
>> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
>> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Imap-protocol mailing list
> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol
>
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On 24 Jan 2014, at 11:50, Alexey Melnikov wrote:

>> On 23 Jan 2014, at 21:32, Brandon Long <blong@google.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yes, gmail currently only notifies of new messages and expunged 
>> messages during idle.
>
> Can you add an IMAP capability (or can an existing one be used) so 
> that client can detect this behaviour?

I second that! I've played with a simple workaround for Gmail in which I 
regularly check for flag changes when in the IDLE state, but I haven't 
enabled it because I don't like that the workaround is not automatically 
disabled when/if Gmail IDLE is improved.

I've also been wondering: The RFC on IMAP IDLE does not state it as a 
requirement that servers must (or even should) report flag changes when 
in the IDLE state. Has anyone done any experiments showing whether or 
not this is a widespread IMAP server limitation (beyond Gmail)?

-- 
Benny
MailMate: http://freron.com

The RFC only says SHOULD, ie:

   Server
   implementations that offer multiple simultaneous access to the same
   mailbox SHOULD also send appropriate unilateral untagged FETCH and
   EXPUNGE responses if another agent changes the state of any message
   flags or expunges any messages


Currently, Gmail never sends unsolicited untagged FETCH responses.  This
has been documented in our help center since day one, ie:
https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78761?hl=en&ref_topic=3397501

This was done due to the expensive nature of providing that feature with
the capabilities our backend had.  We've been working on adding support for
this for some time, but I'm not sure when/if it will ever launch.

Brandon


On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 8:07 AM, Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> wrote:

> That implies you'd expect flag changes to be sent during other commands,
> like NOOP etc? I thought Gmail never sent any unsolicited flag changes at
> all - am I wrong?
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 23, 2014 at 9:32 PM, Brandon Long <blong@google.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes, gmail currently only notifies of new messages and expunged messages
>> during idle.
>>
>> Brandon
>> On Jan 23, 2014 1:26 PM, "Rick Sanders" <rfs9999@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Is it true that Gmail does not send notification to a client which is
>>> idling on a mailbox?
>>>
>>> I ran across that while testing some code that detects flag changes
>>> using IDLE and I was surprised that I did not get anything from Gmail.
>>>
>>> Google searches suggest that's the case.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Rick
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rick Sanders
>>> rfs9999@earthlink.net
>>> IMAP Tools  http://www.athensfbc.com/imap-tools
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Imap-protocol mailing list
>>> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
>>> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Imap-protocol mailing list
>> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
>> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol
>>
>
>
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> I've played with a simple workaround for Gmail in which I
 > regularly check for flag changes when in the IDLE state,

Can you share the workaround with us?

Thanks,
Rick


-- 
Rick Sanders
rfs9999@earthlink.net
IMAP Tools  http://www.athensfbc.com/imap-tools

> I've also been wondering: The RFC on IMAP IDLE does not state it as a
> requirement that servers must (or even should) report flag changes when in
> the IDLE state.

That's because there isn't an IDLE "state": IDLE is a command that
continues "running", and IMAP servers are supposed to report state
changes while commands are in progress.  There's nothing special here
that's different to any other command.  If gmail fails to sent state
updates for flag changes during, say, FETCH or APPEND commands, then
they're being consistent (and wrong).  If they're doing some special
case for IDLE, then they're being peculiar (and wrong).

But there's no reason for the IDLE spec to say anything about flag
changes in particular.  Head to the base IMAP spec to see what status
updates servers should be reporting.

Barry

On 2014-01-24 04:17, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:
> On 24 Jan 2014, at 11:50, Alexey Melnikov wrote:
>
>>> On 23 Jan 2014, at 21:32, Brandon Long <blong@google.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, gmail currently only notifies of new messages and expunged 
>>> messages during idle.
>>
>> Can you add an IMAP capability (or can an existing one be used) so 
>> that client can detect this behaviour?
>
> I second that! I've played with a simple workaround for Gmail in which 
> I regularly check for flag changes when in the IDLE state, but I 
> haven't enabled it because I don't like that the workaround is not 
> automatically disabled when/if Gmail IDLE is improved.
>
> I've also been wondering: The RFC on IMAP IDLE does not state it as a 
> requirement that servers must (or even should) report flag changes 
> when in the IDLE state. Has anyone done any experiments showing 
> whether or not this is a widespread IMAP server limitation (beyond 
> Gmail)?

Exchange has some "quirks" when it comes to updating an IDLE client; 
like Gmail, it flawlessly notifies when a new message is added to a 
folder, but on the Exchange side, flag changes and even deletes are 
either not sent by IDLE, or at least not done so consistently.

I've not investigated the actual IMAP implementation, but as a IMAP 
user, I see folders get out of sync until I force the client to refresh 
-- The only IMAP client-side code I interact with actually only cares 
about new messages, so I've never taken the time to investigate further.

Speaking as a user, the lack of working IMAP IDLE is extremely 
frustrating, and is a significant part of why hireahit.com is a Google 
Apps domain, but we don't use Google Apps mail, and instead host mail 
ourselves, so I'd appreciate a CAPABILITY flag that indicates to clients 
what IDLE will and will not notify, allowing clients to resort to 
polling without completely disabling IDLE for new messages.

-- 
Dave Warren
http://www.hireahit.com/
http://ca.linkedin.com/in/davejwarren

Quoting Brandon Long <blong@google.com>:

> Currently, Gmail never sends unsolicited untagged FETCH responses.  This
> has been documented in our help center since day one, ie:
> https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78761?hl=en&ref_topic=3397501

On that page, shouldn't it be "unsolicited FETCH responses" instead of  
"untagged FETCH responses"?  All FETCH responses are untagged, after  
all.

michael

On Friday, 24 January 2014 20:16:52 CEST, Brandon Long wrote:
> This was done due to the expensive nature of providing that feature with
> the capabilities our backend had.  We've been working on adding support 
for
> this for some time, but I'm not sure when/if it will ever launch.

I assume that your official Android application uses something else but 
IMAP. If that is the code, does it offer a way of being informed about 
changes in e.g. the read/unread status of a message?

With kind regards,
Jan

-- 
Trojit?, a fast Qt IMAP e-mail client -- http://trojita.flaska.net/

Hi,

Gmail not advertising flag updates is a real bummer. My workaround is to poll regularly using CONDSTORE like this:

a FETCH 1:* (UID FLAGS) (CHANGEDSINCE zzz)

Where zzz is the last known HIGHESTMODSEQ value.

Best regards,
Andris Reinman


On 24.01.2014, at 14:23, Rick Sanders <rfs9999@earthlink.net> wrote:

> > I've played with a simple workaround for Gmail in which I
> > regularly check for flag changes when in the IDLE state,
> 
> Can you share the workaround with us?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rick
> 
> 
> -- 
> Rick Sanders
> rfs9999@earthlink.net
> IMAP Tools  http://www.athensfbc.com/imap-tools
> _______________________________________________
> Imap-protocol mailing list
> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol

On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 11:30 AM, Michael M Slusarz
<slusarz@curecanti.org>wrote:

> Quoting Brandon Long <blong@google.com>:
>
>  Currently, Gmail never sends unsolicited untagged FETCH responses.  This
>> has been documented in our help center since day one, ie:
>> https://support.google.com/mail/answer/78761?hl=en&ref_topic=3397501
>>
>
> On that page, shouldn't it be "unsolicited FETCH responses" instead of
> "untagged FETCH responses"?  All FETCH responses are untagged, after all.


Yes, I feel like I've pinged them to change that a number of times, I shall
try again.

Brandon
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On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Jan Kundr?t <jkt@flaska.net> wrote:

> On Friday, 24 January 2014 20:16:52 CEST, Brandon Long wrote:
>
>> This was done due to the expensive nature of providing that feature with
>> the capabilities our backend had.  We've been working on adding support
>>
> for
>
>> this for some time, but I'm not sure when/if it will ever launch.
>>
>
> I assume that your official Android application uses something else but
> IMAP. If that is the code, does it offer a way of being informed about
> changes in e.g. the read/unread status of a message?
>

Yes, Android (and some other clients) use an internal API which is based on
a change log, but that logging didn't include IMAP specific information at
the time, and couldn't be used to implement this feature.  More recently,
we've updated that log, and its used to support CONDSTORE, and work is
under-way to use it for this feature, but that work is not yet complete.

Brandon
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Is there any way to make CONDSTORE faster? We've noticed it's super slow
for large mailboxes.


On Mon, Jan 27, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Brandon Long <blong@google.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 3:40 PM, Jan Kundr?t <jkt@flaska.net> wrote:
>
>> On Friday, 24 January 2014 20:16:52 CEST, Brandon Long wrote:
>>
>>> This was done due to the expensive nature of providing that feature with
>>> the capabilities our backend had.  We've been working on adding support
>>>
>> for
>>
>>> this for some time, but I'm not sure when/if it will ever launch.
>>>
>>
>> I assume that your official Android application uses something else but
>> IMAP. If that is the code, does it offer a way of being informed about
>> changes in e.g. the read/unread status of a message?
>>
>
> Yes, Android (and some other clients) use an internal API which is based
> on a change log, but that logging didn't include IMAP specific information
> at the time, and couldn't be used to implement this feature.  More
> recently, we've updated that log, and its used to support CONDSTORE, and
> work is under-way to use it for this feature, but that work is not yet
> complete.
>
> Brandon
>
> _______________________________________________
> Imap-protocol mailing list
> Imap-protocol@u.washington.edu
> http://mailman2.u.washington.edu/mailman/listinfo/imap-protocol
>
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